Physical shield

[firesea]

black matter- dark matter, so thats what it is!

[xpwarrior3]

That still doesn't convince me. Was this stuff actually researched or did someone just decide to come up with a definition and give it a fancy name? Psychic energy and physical energy aren't the same thing. That's what fifth-force seems to be implying. If psychic energy and physical energy were the same thing then it would make it increasingly difficult to use some of the psionic skills that we use now. Gravity is part of physics.... psionics is not, althought it can partially be explained through physics. I'm not at all conviced that "fifth-force" energy even exist as a psychic energy. It seems to be much more related to physics than psionics. A universal physical energy -- created the big bang -- atomic fission, atomic fusion -- atom bonding -- molecules -- matter. That's all part of physics.

[firesea]

maybe- but all matter is made of energy- maybe its just a certain type of energy- and cause its energy it fallls into the psychic class.

[xpwarrior3]

Just because something's energy doesn't make it fall into the psychic class. A perfect example is heat. You feel heat everyday. Heat is a physical energy, and heat doesn't carry the patterns, thoughts, emotions and ideas of others. Heat isn't a medium for seeing the future..heat doesn't carry past events. All heat does is to excite molecules -- causing them to vibrate. You cannot mold heat and create a construct, because for 1) Heat always expands. It is the transfering of kinetic energy from one molecule to another. 2) Heat IS affected by time and space -- psychic energy is not.

Gravity is also another example of how psychic energy and physical energy or force cannot fall into the same category. Gravity holds things down so that way we don't go floating around as if to say we're in space. If gravity fell into the same category with psychic energy that would mean that telekinesis would be even more difficult than it is and less probable. It would also mean that when you try to send a telepathic message to someone, they won't be likely to get it. Physical and Psychic energy cannot be put into the same category.... except if you were to categorize them as both energies, they wouldn't be the same except for that. So psychic energy doesn't fall into the physical energy and/or forces class and physical energy and/or forces don't fall into the psychic energy class.

If you have any other ideas, I'd like to hear them.

EDIT: Also...(*I'm sorry I missed this*)... Psychic energy doesn't make up matter. If it did or does then why doesn't my psi-ball knock things over? Even if it were extremely compressed...it still won't knock things over. Why is that? ~*Because Psychic energy doesn't create matter*~ It doesn't create or affect anything. Psychic energy in it's "raw form" (*rare to find*) will always pass through solid objects.

[mdk]

i don't really understand
are you saying fifth force is matter and it connot be collected in a psychic way.

[oath]

xpwarrior3 said:

Just because something's energy doesn't make it fall into the psychic class. A perfect example is heat. You feel heat everyday. Heat is a physical energy, and heat doesn't carry the patterns, thoughts, emotions and ideas of others. Heat isn't a medium for seeing the future..heat doesn't carry past events. All heat does is to excite molecules -- causing them to vibrate. You cannot mold heat and create a construct, because for 1) Heat always expands. It is the transfering of kinetic energy from one molecule to another. 2) Heat IS affected by time and space -- psychic energy is not.

Gravity is also another example of how psychic energy and physical energy or force cannot fall into the same category. Gravity holds things down so that way we don't go floating around as if to say we're in space. If gravity fell into the same category with psychic energy that would mean that telekinesis would be even more difficult than it is and less probable. It would also mean that when you try to send a telepathic message to someone, they won't be likely to get it. Physical and Psychic energy cannot be put into the same category.... except if you were to categorize them as both energies, they wouldn't be the same except for that. So psychic energy doesn't fall into the physical energy and/or forces class and physical energy and/or forces don't fall into the psychic energy class.

If you have any other ideas, I'd like to hear them.

EDIT: Also...(*I'm sorry I missed this*)... Psychic energy doesn't make up matter. If it did or does then why doesn't my psi-ball knock things over? Even if it were extremely compressed...it still won't knock things over. Why is that? ~*Because Psychic energy doesn't create matter*~ It doesn't create or affect anything. Psychic energy in it's "raw form" (*rare to find*) will always pass through solid objects.

If you divide the world into elements (not thinking periodic please) then You may classify heat as a property of fire, fire being that which is expansive and positive. Positive, is a thought but very real even though you cannot see or touch it. It is something to be felt and understood in the mind (which is also the element of fire apparently chest-air, stomach-water)Light also comes from fire, and vice versa. Light is not affected, seemingly, by time and space, at least measured by modern day physics. But more importantly, is often equated and used in spiritual* practices and arts dealing in psychic nature

This is just a small example, and strange as it my seem, possibly even hard to accept, I think many will agree it is quite obvious, especially concerning these elements of fire, air, and water. There is however one other for the curious mind, that being the akasa principle from which all originated. This is likened to god.

This can be found in Franz Bardon's Initiation into hermetics for anyone interested. You can get it free in online pdf

[firesea]

xpwarrior3 i see your point, but have you ever tried to knock something with a psiball? ( i havent so.....) im just saying maybe you could. oath i like the theories you presented. i wonder what others think.

[xpwarrior3]

Firesea: As a matter of fact, yes. I have tried to knock things over with a psiball and with no success. The only solid object I've ever moved is a psi-wheel and I think even then it wasn't me. I have a difficult time when it comes to affecting solid objects through psychokinesis. Liquids, gases and plasma I can affect just fine, but solids are difficult for me.

Oath: I think I can understand where you're getting to. It seems to me that you're trying to relate psychic energy works to physics and that is all good. I do it myself sometimes, but what I'm trying to push across is that the two are completely different things. I don't understand what you mean by positive though.

mdk: Yes that's what I'm saying. You cannot collect "fifth force" the same way you'd collect psychic energy. Running this supposed "fifth force" through your body would almost be the equivilent of adding extra weights on you, increasing fiction or exciting your molecules to the point where you'd catch on fire or slowing your molecules to the point where you'd reach zero kelvins (absolute zero; zero point energy).

[mdk]

xp why don't you try getting this energy and if nothing happens you can't collect it and if sumthing happens then it can be a psychic enerygy. and i get your point now but what if your doing something like aerokinesis, you collecting the air in a sort of way. and isn't collecting air as energy the same defience with fifth force

[oath]

Well, I see that it might be fairly hard to use a certain type of energy, which you term, 'psychic energy' to affect another type, which might be call solid matter.

Have you tried affecting just the matter itself? I feel this is done more by will than anything else, and is often enough brought about through need and perhaps accompanied often enough by what I would call an awakening.

When I create a psi ball with and between hands, As I start to bounce it back in forth, it not only gets bigger and hard to control, but starts to push on me with physical force and even move my hands, Ive never had much want or need to experiment further with this, as I am more a person of spiritual orientation for the time being. The best thing I would suggest when Trying to move solid matter, is a clear mind, almost like you would say an enlightened or mystical state of mind. I have been in these states before and had things move around me when I glanced at them, It was spontanious though and not controlled so perhaps this is a bit different.

Keep trying mate, dont give up, anything is possible right?

Oh, and maybe not limit yourself?

[firesea]

oath said:

Keep trying mate, dont give up, anything is possible right?

Oath i like your attitude!!!

[xpwarrior3]

mdk: You're thinking, but you're not on the right track. Air isn't energy, air is matter. When you collect air, all you do is move matter. Aerokinesis is only the psychokinetic ability (or psychic ability) to affect gasses. Also from the description you gave about what fifth force energy is, you're saying that it is infact physical, since you say it makes up matter. While on the other hand, psychic energy does not and can not make up matter. If psychic energy and fifth force energy were the same thing that means that psychic energy can be detected, analyzed and studied with the technology that we have now.... (this isn't the case)...

oath: I can understand what you're saying. Still I do not see the connection that makes psychic energy and physical energy the same. I haven't heard or read anything that will convince me.

"Keep trying mate, dont give up, anything is possible right?"
Yes, but that doesn't make it probable.

[mdk]

lol im still a little uhh, k so if fifthforce is matter why can't you just collect that. an isn't it like subatomic size so, i dunno sort ofu using also tk for bringing it, iduuno exactly but ii think oyu can still collect it

[xpwarrior3]

Yes. You can still collect it, the same way you'd collect air molecules, but you'd never collect it as psychic energy. All you would be doing is manipulating matter. You're just using psychokinesis to move matter from point A to point B. If you're talking about collecting it into your body then that is a different subject all together. Since you don't know what fifth-force is actually composed of then you wouldn't know the side-effects to using and collecting it.

[oath]

xpwarrior3 said:

Yes. You can still collect it, the same way you'd collect air molecules, but you'd never collect it as psychic energy. All you would be doing is manipulating matter. You're just using psychokinesis to move matter from point A to point B. If you're talking about collecting it into your body then that is a different subject all together. Since you don't know what fifth-force is actually composed of then you wouldn't know the side-effects to using and collecting it.

You dont need [you]to know[/you] in the first place, Just do it

Perhaps its not so much a question of probabilities but more a question of yourself and what you think, try thinking a different way, better yet, dont think, Just do it

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." No matter whether we believe in something or not, the phenomenon takes place irrespective of our knowledge or belief